Air Lift Super Duty Bags Installed

[8ball_99]

LMFAO...... no you don't! Only chicks dreaming about cradles!

So you don't have to have them, but with the bags still holding air, when you hit a big bump they will add a lot of resistance. Especially as they compress the pressure goes up. Its like hitting the bump stop, but way earlier then you would normally. Without cradles you can't run them at zero or empty because you can rip the bag if a tire is lifted off the ground. The bags also will not let the axle fully droop when bolted at both ends. So you usually lose some up and down travel.

It probably doesn't matter to most people. But I've had them setup both ways and I just prefer to run them that way. Its why on my 1500 I used two different kits on one truck. TB brackets were too tall for cradles. But standard 1500 bags were to stiff and not enough travel. No option to mix and match on the HDs because all the kits were the same.

 

[AXE]

So you don't have to have them, but with the bags still holding air, when you hit a big bump they will add a lot of resistance. Especially as they compress the pressure goes up. Its like hitting the bump stop, but way earlier then you would normally. Without cradles you can't run them at zero or empty because you can rip the bag if a tire is lifted off the ground. The bags also will not let the axle fully droop when bolted at both ends. So you usually lose some up and down travel.

It probably doesn't matter to most people. But I've had them setup both ways and I just prefer to run them that way. Its why on my 1500 I used two different kits on one truck. TB brackets were too tall for cradles. But standard 1500 bags were to stiff and not enough travel. No option to mix and match on the HDs because all the kits were the same.

None of that is true on this rig.. I proved all your concerns to be unfounded minutes after I installed mine. Then proceeded to log 11k trouble free miles

I've run mine at the standard 5 psi and aired up to 90 psi and its all the same. Hit a massive bump flying down the interstate towing 11k and it ate them right up. Can't feel the difference unladen either.

Only way saucers matter is if your running a large lift. The ZR2 doesn't have a large lift, in spite of sitting tall.

You may as well get them now that you waited 2 years. But you ain't getting something better than what the rest of us have been running for a long while now.

This thread was good before it got ruined by Timbrens and flying saucers!

 

[AXE]

Not sure if you do or not but I know that I’ve had a rear wheel completely off the ground on this ZR2 at least 10 times since I bought it in January. I’d rather have the crimped plates and the cradles to make sure one bag isn’t holding any weight while up in the air.

Look at the pictures I posted, I proved that to be bullshit, before the bullshit was even imagined.

 

[AXE]

Yeah - they are good to do business with. I'll be getting a $300 credit for these stupid timbrens lol.

You listen to me, not only do you save $300, but the aggravation too.

Yes, mt ol mans Timbrens are still in the bucket in his shop since 2010. Just snapped this photo, cause I happen to be visiting him.

 

[REDHOTZR2]

Look at the pictures I posted, I proved that to be bullshit, before the bullshit was even imagined.

I get that you took pictures of the suspension fully drooped but I think there’s a difference between a solid axle being fully drooped vs one side holding all the weight of the truck and causing down force on the other side. Either way I’m sure yours are holding up fine and I don’t doubt your experience with these bags but I put my truck through some pretty rough shit and I’d rather be safe than sorry. Once I get them installed I’ll go up a trail behind my house that’ll put the truck in the position I’m talking about and see if it separates from the cradle. I’ll post some pictures no matter the results.

 

[8ball_99]

None of that is true. Have you even read any of this thread or looked at my pictures. I proved all your concerns to be unfounded minutes after I installed mine.

I've run mine at the standard 5 psi and aired up to 90 psi and its all the same. Hit a massive bump flying down the interstate towing 11k and it ate them right up. Can't feel the difference unladen either.

Only way saucers matter is if your running a large lift. The ZR2 doesn't have a large lift, in spite of sitting tall.

You may as well get them now that you waited 2 years. But you ain't getting something better than what the rest of us have been running for a long while now.

This thread was good before it got ruined by Timbrens and flying saucers!

Loaded going down the road it doesn't matter. Its for when not loaded. Hit a big bump at speed with 5 psi in your bags. Then remove the stem out of your Schrader valve to the bags and hit that same bump at the same speed. It physically can't be the same. The bags add resistance. The more you compress them, the more resistance. With the bags open they compress all the way down to the jounce with no resistance like they aren't there. Just running them at 0 vs 5psi makes a difference.

I didn't really wait. I haven't needed bags. I want them, but my truck has hauled my stuff fine without them. My 11k trailer will never need 90psi. I doubt I'll ever run more then 30psi, lol. It would ride like a log wagon. My Toyhauler's tongue weight is only 1500lb in a truck with a payload of 3,333. Mine is a gasser so its 800+lbs lighter then a diesel and 533lb more payload.

 

[AXE]

I get that you took pictures of the suspension fully drooped but I think there’s a difference between a solid axle being fully drooped vs one side holding all the weight of the truck and causing down force on the other side. Either way I’m sure yours are holding up fine and I don’t doubt your experience with these bags but I put my truck through some pretty rough shit and I’d rather be safe than sorry. Once I get them installed I’ll go up a trail behind my house that’ll put the truck in the position I’m talking about and see if it separates from the cradle. I’ll post some pictures no matter the results.

I can't imagine taking my truck anywhere like that when I am towing heavy and my bags are aired up. If I'm not towing and no air, it simply doesn't matter.

The clearance between the frame and axle is not much. I'm pretty sure those bags are gonna be jammed up in those cradles for sure when installed and certainly while articulating. I can't wait to see those installed.

If we're being serious about offroading the ZR2 is not the truck, if we're being serious about towing, the ZR2 is not the truck. This is just a poser rig that can do some light towing and offroading.

 

[AXE]

Loaded going down the road it doesn't matter. Its for when not loaded. Hit a big bump at speed with 5 psi in your bags. Then remove the stem out of your Schrader valve to the bags and hit that same bump at the same speed. It physically can't be the same. The bags add resistance. The more you compress them, the more resistance. With the bags open they compress all the way down to the jounce with no resistance like they aren't there. Just running them at 0 vs 5psi makes a difference.

I didn't really wait. I haven't needed bags. I want them, but my truck has hauled my stuff fine without them. My 11k trailer will never need 90psi. I doubt I'll ever run more then 30psi, lol. It would ride like a log wagon. My Toyhauler's tongue weight is only 1500lb in a truck with a payload of 3,333. Mine is a gasser so its 800+lbs lighter then a diesel and 533lb more payload.

Again, your just making shit up with that 5 psi stuff. You cannot feel 5 psi on a 9000 lb rig. Maybe your lightweight gasser can feel it, but I can barely feel 10-15 psi on my BIG BOY rig! If I brought home a few T-bones I'd have to add 10 psi to keepmit from sagging.

 

[8ball_99]

Again, your just making shit up with that 5 psi stuff. You cannot feel 5 psi on a 9000 lb rig. Maybe your lightweight gasser can feel it, but I can barely feel 10-15 psi on my BIG BOY rig! If I brought home a few T-bones I'd have to add 10 psi to keepmit from sagging.

Definitely not making stuff up, it does make a difference. That's why the min is 5psi. Its enough to keep the bags from ripping at full droop without cradles. But if you can barely feel yours at 15 psi then who knows. I've never had bags I couldn't feel that weren't open. We had a rv dealership for 26 years. Running bags open was the standard fix for customers complaining about the ride unloaded. I've ran bags on pretty much every truck I've owned. I just prefer not to keep air in them unloaded. My trucks are always daily drivers though and spend most of their time on country roads with no load.

You also thought it was a pointless when I added a steering stabilizer, pitman arm brace and replaced my torsion bars for the comfort ride ones. But I love the improvement in ride and handling. My wife says I have a flat little butt. Maybe that's why I noticed these type of things . I can feel the difference instantly when I forget to air down my tires from 65 to 55 after towing. My lack of natural padding is probably the culprit for my sensitive back side

 

[AXE]

Definitely not making stuff up, it does make a difference. That's why the min is 5psi. Its enough to keep the bags from ripping at full droop without cradles. But if you can barely feel yours at 15 psi then who knows. I've never had bags I couldn't feel that weren't open. We had a rv dealership for 26 years. Running bags open was the standard fix for customers complaining about the ride unloaded. I've ran bags on pretty much every truck I've owned. I just prefer not to keep air in them unloaded. My trucks are always daily drivers though and spend most of their time on country roads with no load.

You also thought it was a pointless when I added a steering stabilizer, pitman arm brace and replaced my torsion bars for the comfort ride ones. But I love the improvement in ride and handling. My wife says I have a flat little butt. Maybe that's why I noticed these type of things . I can feel the difference instantly when I forget to air down my tires from 65 to 55 after towing. My lack of natural padding is probably the culprit for my sensitive back side

Just get cloth seats, they are more comfortable than this crappy leather. The crappy leather is like 15 psi in bags. They haven't made good seats since 2007.

You needed torsion bars cause you bought the wrong truck tho

Ive been riding around in a Ram 3500 HD tonner for the last week and it's as comfortable as any truck I've been in. It has coils and cloth seats with decent padding. Need to get it loaded down to see if it'll need bags. Only did some light towing and it didn't even seem to notice the trailer.

Anyway, get those bags installed so I can see if that flying saucer will even fit between the limited space in between frame and axle, not to mention the clearance between the leaf springs.

 

[REDHOTZR2]

I can't imagine taking my truck anywhere like that when I am towing heavy and my bags are aired up. If I'm not towing and no air, it simply doesn't matter.

The clearance between the frame and axle is not much. I'm pretty sure those bags are gonna be jammed up in those cradles for sure when installed and certainly while articulating. I can't wait to see those installed.

If we're being serious about offroading the ZR2 is not the truck, if we're being serious about towing, the ZR2 is not the truck. This is just a poser rig that can do some light towing and offroading.

Okay let's back up a little bit. I am not taking my truck in a heavy off-road situation while towing. The most would be an old logging trail or something while towing but nothing to fully articulate the suspension like I mentioned. I do however, get into those hairy situations while I'm not towing which is why the concern exists for me. I know the clearance isn't that much between the frame and axle and I'm curious to see how it all fits as well. For all I know they are smaller bags than the set you installed - no idea but we'll find out soon enough.

As far as being serious about off-roading, you are correct - the ZR2 2500 is not the truck. It also isn't the truck perfect for towing but for my specific needs, it is absolutely the perfect truck in more ways than one. I've had plenty of HD's and plenty of half tons. I've had the Ford Raptor, Ram TRX, GMC Sierra Denali 2500HD, Ford F250, Ford F350 as well as a Ford F550 and none of them compared to this truck for me.

Let me explain:
OFFROAD: Ford Raptor/Ram TRX - both of these trucks did great off-road in the situations I used them for. I am not a hard core trail guy, I have ATV's and dirt bikes for that. I just get into some pretty rough terrain when hunting, fishing, camping, scouting, ELR shooting, getting firewood etc... I will certainly get my suspension fully articulated both front and back with no problem and a good suspension is required.

TOWING: My F-series Ford's did great at this task (when they ran right) and I couldn't ask for more until I get off the pavement. Every time I had a heavy duty truck I wanted a half ton and every time I towed with a half ton, I wanted a heavy duty. I had enough of Ford's dying on me (yes I bought new, yes I grew up in a garage and know how to maintain everything properly, no I don't abuse the shit out of my vehicles). In 2020 I got rid of my Ford Raptor and got into the GMC Denali 2500 HD. I did a 3" lift and threw on some nice wheels/tires and called it good. I loved the looks of the truck, loved the duramax and had no issues towing anything I needed to. The off-road capability was enough to make it through in most cases but sometimes it made it really difficult to get to where I wanted especially in the snow and more importantly without a locker in the rear. I absolutely HATED the G80 and couldn't get rid of the truck fast enough. I ordered a Ram TRX in Sep 2021 and took delivery in May 2022. The truck was built pretty heavy duty for a half ton and towed my small RV and flatbed trailer with all the ATV's on it just fine. The following year I decided to start a food truck and did it on the side until Oct 2024 when I threw my construction career away for good and went full time. I obviously started towing every day and there was plenty of power to do it but the squat even with the WDH was too much. I looked into bags for the TRX but the only thing available would have seriously inhibited the suspension travel so my obvious next choice was to build my own concession trailer putting a priority on distributing weight within the trailer or just getting a new truck that was meant for work but still had off-road capability. My first thought was a Ford F250 Tremor but then I remembered how much I hated my Ford's in the past so I started looking into the Ram Rebel HD. I wasn't really impressed with the TRX from a quality standpoint so I went back to looking at GM and was very pleased to see they came out with an off-road capable HD truck. Let's face it, the suspension doesn't compare to a Raptor or TRX but it's a smooth ride for an HD and the fact that it had a selectable locker made the sale for me. As I looked into it I realized the bison package included the steel bumpers which are without question a must for me so I pulled the trigger.

PERFECT TRUCK: For my needs this truck absolutely does it all. It allows me to access the places I could with my Raptor/TRX, It soaks up the 8 miles off-pavement driving I do daily just to leave my house and get to town, it does good in hairy situations and when there are issues, the locker is there to help and I definitely use it often. It tows great with the exception of the 2.5" of squat while pulling my food trailer. I knew I wanted the bags but didn't want to lose ANY articulation and didn't want to compromise with a non-specific kit that could make it work and then I'd push the limits with it. I went with the Timbrens because I heard they were good and they are, but not great for my situation. I'm glad airlift offers a kit specifically for the ZR2/AT4X platform and I'm sure it'll do what I need it to. It may not be much different than the standard kit but who knows, maybe it is. Overall, I am very impressed and happy with this truck and having never been a fan of having two trucks to cover all my tasks, this one does it all for me.

 

[AXE]

Hard to say from that video. Bags look pretty similar. The only thing i didn't like on my setup is the offset from the center of the frame. It's obviously needed to prevent the bag from rubbing the springs and u bolts. That's where I'm wondering if the flying saucer will require more offset, as it looked quite large.

The flying saucers on my last lifted truck were narrower. However, when articulation was exaggerated as you described, the bags rarely sat square in the saucer and occasionally would end up not sitting square when back to level. But overall it worked, but there was a lot more frame to axle clearance.

 

[REDHOTZR2]

Hard to say from that video. Bags look pretty similar. The only thing i didn't like on my setup is the offset from the center of the frame. It's obviously needed to prevent the bag from rubbing the springs and u bolts. That's where I'm wondering if the flying saucer will require more offset, as it looked quite large.

The flying saucers on my last lifted truck were narrower. However, when articulation was exaggerated as you described, the bags rarely sat square in the saucer and occasionally would end up not sitting square when back to level. But overall it worked, but there was a lot more frame to axle clearance.

I have no idea if they are the same bags or not. One would think they are to keep production differences to a minimum which is obviously cheaper. Hopefully they put some actual R&D into this kit as the ZR2/AT4X 2500’s are probably the perfect candidates for bags. I would think most owners of these trucks are outdoorsmen that hunt, camp and ride and need an off-road focused truck to tow their toys. Let’s see what they brought to market.

 

[AXE]

I have no idea if they are the same bags or not. One would think they are to keep production differences to a minimum which is obviously cheaper. Hopefully they put some actual R&D into this kit as the ZR2/AT4X 2500’s are probably the perfect candidates for bags. I would think most owners of these trucks are outdoorsmen that hunt, camp and ride and need an off-road focused truck to tow their toys. Let’s see what they brought to market.

I'm sure they'll work! 90% of that kit is the same thing everyone is running. I mean how hard can R&D be on something that's been done a billions of times.

 

[REDHOTZR2]

I'm sure they'll work! 90% of that kit is the same thing everyone is running. I mean how hard can R&D be on something that's been done a billions of times.

Don’t disagree with you at all but maybe they addressed the offset you were talking about. Maybe the internal dampener will work better with the shocks? The only thing I’m concerned with is the fact that the compressor requires 5PSI at all times and I can’t empty the bags completely when I’m not towing. From your experience, is that a valid concern or is the 5PSI negligible?

 

[AXE]

Whats and internal dampner? That's like adding Timbrens to a perfectly good set of airbags. I though we crossed that off the list.

Theres no way to address the offset unless you have a narrow bag, but we ain't running Civics. Otherwise you'd have to narrow the frame or move the springs out.

I run about 6 sets, two on Rams, the Rams are a little more squared up. But they weren't lifted and it was pretty cramped. They still ride really nice.

Don’t disagree with you at all but maybe they addressed the offset you were talking about. Maybe the internal dampener will work better with the shocks? The only thing I’m concerned with is the fact that the compressor requires 5PSI at all times and I can’t empty the bags completely when I’m not towing. From your experience, is that a valid concern or is the 5PSI negligible?

 

[AXE]

14 air bags on this rig and it weights 20 tons and hits the deck at 180 mph many time per week. Those engines are the size of 2 ZR2s. Old school technology!

 

[AXE]

When I have 5 psi in my bags I can walk up and push my finger right into the bag
The only thing offering resistance is the hard carcass of the rubber. I've felt firmer titties!

If you run 0.psi, they will for sure wrinkle on your extreme articulation. 5 psi keeps the shape of the bag.

That's where @8ball_99 and I disagree. Your not feeling 5 psi on a 9000 lb rig with giant ass springs and shocks! He also likes those internal jounces, but they are useless unless your towing 15k+ ish!.

 

[REDHOTZR2]

Whats and internal dampner? That's like adding Timbrens to a perfectly good set of airbags. I though we crossed that off the list.

Theres no way to address the offset unless you have a narrow bag, but we ain't running Civics. Otherwise you'd have to narrow the frame or move the springs out.

I run about 6 sets, two on Rams, the Rams are a little more squared up. But they weren't lifted and it was pretty cramped. They still ride really nice.

Sorry internal jounce bumper.

Not sure how they might address the offset other than different brackets. I’d have to put eyes on it to comment intelligently.

 

[REDHOTZR2]

14 air bags on this rig and it weights 20 tons and hits the deck at 180 mph many time per week. Those engines are the size of 2 ZR2s. Old school technology!

Yup, I get the technology but obviously the jounce bumpers were introduced to solve an issue or numerous complaints so…. poof it’s here!