Air Lift Super Duty Bags Installed

[REDHOTZR2]

When I have 5 psi in my bags I can walk up and push my finger right into the bag
The only thing offering resistance is the hard carcass of the rubber. I've felt firmer titties!

If you run 0.psi, they will for sure wrinkle on your extreme articulation. 5 psi keeps the shape of the bag.

That's where @8ball_99 and I disagree. You’re not feeling 5 psi on a 9000 lb rig with giant ass springs and shocks! He also likes those internal jounces, but they are useless unless you’re towing 15k+ ish!.

This was my question. If the 5 PSI is negligible than I have no concerns.

 

[8ball_99]

When I have 5 psi in my bags I can walk up and push my finger right into the bag
The only thing offering resistance is the hard carcass of the rubber. I've felt firmer titties!

If you run 0.psi, they will for sure wrinkle on your extreme articulation. 5 psi keeps the shape of the bag.

That's where @8ball_99 and I disagree. Your not feeling 5 psi on a 9000 lb rig with giant ass springs and shocks! He also likes those internal jounces, but they are useless unless your towing 15k+ ish!.

Its not that you feel the 5psi so much. But with 5 psi in the bags and the bags closed the pressure goes up as you compress them. Like hitting a big bump. If you have a gauge watch it on bridges and track crossings. That 5 psi shoots up to 30+ when you hit a bump. It adds resistance to the uptravel just like having heavier spring rate. Same reason why you air the bags up after you are loaded. You put 20psi in them then load the truck you could have 60psi once you add weight. The pressure increases making the bags firmer as you compress them. Running cradles with the bags opens means they compress down to the jounce with no resistance. Basically like the factory bump stop. Its also why you want the internal jounce because you remove the oem bump stop. Open bags and no bump stop= bad. Open bags on cradles with internal bump stop= good, lol.
I promise it's not made up, its the best way to have bags without them getting in the way unloaded. It's what makes bags better then other options. You run them Open and they Basically aren't there at all.

 

[8ball_99]

A simpler way to explain it. Put 5psi in your bags, add weight to the truck until it squats a few inches then see what psi your bags read. It will be Much higher and they will be stiffer. That's exactly what happens when you hit a bump and the axle tries to go up. It acts like a progressive spring getting stiffer the more you compress it. Which is why they are great towing

 

[AXE]

Yup, I get the technology but obviously the jounce bumpers were introduced to solve an issue or numerous complaints so…. poof it’s here!

Only good for heavy loads. You put 80-100 psi in a bag it won't jounce! That's why jouncless is priceless when you got premier springs and shocks. Thank me later!

 

[REDHOTZR2]

Its not that you feel the 5psi so much. But with 5 psi in the bags and the bags closed the pressure goes up as you compress them. Like hitting a big bump. If you have a gauge watch it on bridges and track crossings. That 5 psi shoots up to 30+ when you hit a bump. It adds resistance to the uptravel just like having heavier spring rate. Same reason why you air the bags up after you are loaded. You put 20psi in them then load the truck you could have 60psi once you add weight. The pressure increases making the bags firmer as you compress them. Running cradles with the bags opens means they compress down to the jounce with no resistance. Basically like the factory bump stop. Its also why you want the internal jounce because you remove the oem bump stop. Open bags and no bump stop= bad. Open bags on cradles with internal bump stop= good, lol.
I promise it's not made up, its the best way to have bags without them getting in the way unloaded. It's what makes bags better then other options. You run them Open and they Basically aren't there at all.

A simpler way to explain it. Put 5psi in your bags, add weight to the truck until it squats a few inches then see what psi your bags read. It will be Much higher and they will be stiffer. That's exactly what happens when you hit a bump and the axle tries to go up. It acts like a progressive spring getting stiffer the more you compress it. Which is why they are great towing

Oh it definitely makes sense, it's simple physics. You have a designated amount of area or volume and as that gets compressed in any way the area or volume decreases in turn increasing the air pressure inside because there is the same amount of air in a smaller area. Blow up a balloon and squeeze it you'll get the same effect. I've never ran bags at all so I can't comment on how it feels or doesn't feel.

It certainly makes sense the way you and @AXE both explain it. You can feel it and @AXE says no way. I guess perception is the factor here. Maybe you are looking for the difference as you go over bumps and you are hyper focused on it which makes it a bigger perceived difference in ride for that second or two.

The way I think about it, if the 5 PSI is negligible enough to be able to push your finger into the bag, it would have to be a pretty serious bump for that bag to stiffen up enough to feel anything while unloaded. I personally cannot see or imagine any difference if the 5 PSI is soft enough to push a finger into it. Again, perception is reality and with many mechanical things, people can get hyper focused on how things feel and noises pretty quickly especially when dealing with suspension.

Again I have zero experience with bags so I'll have to see for myself once I get them on and put them to use both loaded and unloaded on and off road.

 

[AXE]

5 psi will always be 5 psi, cause your springs and shocks will be way ahead of it.

You guys should have played with more titties when your were younger instead of playing with your jounces!

I just had 20 psi in my bladder when I got of this plane. I sure as hell wasn't worried about having a jounce in there too!

 

[AXE]

Its not that you feel the 5psi so much. But with 5 psi in the bags and the bags closed the pressure goes up as you compress them. Like hitting a big bump. If you have a gauge watch it on bridges and track crossings. That 5 psi shoots up to 30+ when you hit a bump. It adds resistance to the uptravel just like having heavier spring rate. Same reason why you air the bags up after you are loaded. You put 20psi in them then load the truck you could have 60psi once you add weight. The pressure increases making the bags firmer as you compress them. Running cradles with the bags opens means they compress down to the jounce with no resistance. Basically like the factory bump stop. Its also why you want the internal jounce because you remove the oem bump stop. Open bags and no bump stop= bad. Open bags on cradles with internal bump stop= good, lol.
I promise it's not made up, its the best way to have bags without them getting in the way unloaded. It's what makes bags better then other options. You run them Open and they Basically aren't there at all.

Dude, I got to tell you this is some real bullshit. Pressure does not increase with weight. You ever air up tires on an 18 wheeler? Guess what 100 psi is a 100 psi, it doesn't matter what you have in the truck. Now you might want to run higher pressure with more weight, but you sure as hell dont get more pressure with weight. The bag will compress and flatten out, hence why its set back from the springs.

The only thing that will increase psi is temp due to sunlight or friction from rolling down the road.

The good thing about the Wireless One, is it will bleed off pressure when the temps get warmer or add pressure when colder. Whatever you have it set at, that's what it'll maintain. The 5 psi will adjust itself if you hook up the pink wire. If you want to run less than 5 psi, leave the wire and splice in a Shrader valve to bleed off the extra.

 

[AXE]

Simple Physics = you have a stretching vessel, there's still 5 psi in the bags. It pancakes, you dont feel shit unless your ordered the jounce for a rough ride enhancement.

 

[REDHOTZR2]

Only good for heavy loads. You put 80-100 psi in a bag it won't jounce! That's why jouncless is priceless when you got premier springs and shocks. Than me later!

Not doubting what you're saying but what harm will they cause if you're not even touching them unless loaded super heavy? I guess they are in place when running 0 psi so you don't rip the bag, but when using the compressor you can't go down to 0 psi unless you can cut power to the compressor and have a relief valve between the compressor and the bags. No idea what they are made of or how hard/soft they are but I'm sure they react differently depending on how much air is surrounding them in the bag anyway. Again, I'm sure I'll be putting these bags to the limit off-road within the first day or two of running them. I'll be sure to report back with any issues I experience. While running loaded I'm sure they will work perfectly and I'm excited as hell to be level while loaded.

 

[REDHOTZR2]

5 psi will always be 5 psi, cause your springs and shocks will be way ahead of it.

You guys should have played with more titties when your were younger instead of playing with your jounces!

I just had 20 psi in my bladder when I got of this plane. I sure as hell wasn't worried about having a jounce in there too!

Lol - you're just that guy... Every group has one.

 

[8ball_99]

Lol - you're just that guy... Every group has one.

I think maybe he is drinking when you get your bags put 5 psi in them squat the truck a couple inches and see if the pressure in the bags goes up. (It will) His might not because the compressor system will add or let air out to maintain the set pressure.
For the record the pressure in tires also goes up if you squish them. Its like saying you can't compress air

 

[REDHOTZR2]

I think maybe he is drinking when you get your bags put 5 psi in them squat the truck a couple inches and see if the pressure in the bags goes up. (It will) His might not because the compressor system will add or let air out to maintain the set pressure.
For the record the pressure in tires also goes up if you squish them. Its like saying you can't compress air

Oh it’s simple physics. With a smaller volume the air molecules are more concentrated leading to a higher pressure. I don’t think it’s a substantial amount but an increase nonetheless.

 

[AXE]

I think maybe he is drinking when you get your bags put 5 psi in them squat the truck a couple inches and see if the pressure in the bags goes up. (It will) His might not because the compressor system will add or let air out to maintain the set pressure.
For the record the pressure in tires also goes up if you squish them. Its like saying you can't compress air

I had a beer and burrito at DIA. Now I'm drinking cranberry juice and going to bed
Logged about 16 hours so far. Tomorrow when I'm rested, I'll enlighten everyone some more.

 

[AXE]

I think maybe he is drinking when you get your bags put 5 psi in them squat the truck a couple inches and see if the pressure in the bags goes up. (It will) His might not because the compressor system will add or let air out to maintain the set pressure.
For the record the pressure in tires also goes up if you squish them. Its like saying you can't compress air

I run 12- 15 psi in my tires in the sand and the tires pancake out. There's no magic where sunddenly the tires gain pressure cause the truck weighs 9000 lbs and I'm driving around in the sand. I have to stop and air them up when I'm ready to leave.

When there's no additional volume added in the expanding/flexible vessel, the pressure doesn't increase.

 

[REDHOTZR2]

I cant believe we are actually having this conversation but here you go:

Boyle's Law:
The relationship between pressure and volume in a gas is described by Boyle's Law, which states that at a constant temperature, the pressure and volume of a gas are inversely proportional. When a tire is compressed, its volume decreases, and therefore, the pressure of the air inside increases.

Load and Compression:
When a truck is loaded, the tires compress under the added weight. This compression reduces the tire's internal volume.

Minor Pressure Increase:
While the tire's volume does decrease slightly, the resulting pressure increase is typically not very significant, often only a few pounds per square inch (PSI).

Temperature Effects:
Tire pressure can also increase due to friction from driving, which heats the air inside the tire, causing it to expand and increase the pressure.

Here’s a little science experiment you can do to see it in real time for yourself:
Jack up one tire on your truck. If there is 45 PSI in it, put another 5 PSI in it for a total of 50.0 PSI. Make sure to use a digital gauge. Check it twice like Santa and verify it’s 50.0 PSI. Once you’ve confirmed it, lower the truck back down on the ground and check the pressure again. There will absolutely, positively be an increase in pressure. It may be 50.1 PSI but it will be an increase thus proving physics exists and Boyle’s Law is factual.

Let’s get back to the focus of the conversation of air bags and how @AXE knows everything there is to know about air bags, he’s been there done it, been doing it for years and cannot possibly see a different use case for the ZR2 2500 than the way he uses it. There’s no need for jounces because they suck and the new part number is worthless marketing and the list goes on. It’s not that serious but if it makes you feel better, I’ll make sure to tag the entire forum in here and let them know that @AXE told me so!

 

[AXE]

Ol' Boyle clearly didn't ever run his air bags at 5 psi, where the minimal air pressure doesn't mean shit and the only thing still supporting the truck is the springs and shocks.

I've aired up and changed more tires on equipment on accident than ol Boyle ever did on paper. There's neglible difference by weight. It's all temperature and friction driven just like I stated long before your cut and paste exercise where it validated what I've stated.

Remember, I'm the guy that started this thread with a great option for towing heavy with air bags and its been flawless. For which, others have stated the exact same results.

I''m not the guy that installed timbrens and after one day running them ordered air bags like the random guy on the Interweb told him to in the first place. Then proceeded to order a set of bags with Timbrens inside them to resolve my Timbren issue that was caused by buying the wrong truck for daily towing in the first place.

Boyle never towed with bags...........LMFAO!

 

[AXE]

By the way, you never posted what your problem was with the Timbrens? Was it exactly what I told you it woukd be?

For a guy looking for good advice, you sure seem to be getting bitter that your alternate path has been a like a bad trail in the Black Hills.

If you dont like my advice, why keep coming back for it?

 

[REDHOTZR2]

Ol' Boyle clearly didn't ever run his air bags at 5 psi where the minimal air pressure doesn't mean shit and the only thing still supporting the truck is the springs and shocks.

I've air up and changed more tires on equipment on accodent than ol Boyle ever did on paper. There's negligence difference by weight. It all temperature and friction driven just like I stated long before your cut and paste exercise.

Remember, I'm not the guy that installed timbrens and after one day running them ordered air bags like the random guy on the Interweb told him to in the first place. Then proceeded to order a set of bags with Timbrens inside them to resolve my Timbren issue that was caused by buying the wrong truck for daily towing in the first place.

Boyle never towed with bags...........LMFAO!

You’re right I’m sure he didn’t. We weren’t arguing over whether or not the 5 psi meant anything noticeable, we were arguing over whether or not pressure increases when a bag is compressed. I wouldn’t expect you to acknowledge that because you are the guy trying to prove to the world you’re right. You have to be the king of the ZR2 forum and make sure to be the loudest one in the room. The thing about guys like you is nobody really gives a shit how right or wrong you are, only you give a shit. Maybe it’s because you were bullied or never really proved yourself to yourself.

Yeah I am the guy that got a set of timbrens and tried them out for myself instead of listening to some random guy on the internet. Whether you were wrong or right doesn’t matter to me. I experienced it for myself and now I know for sure what the use case is or is not for my situation. I’m not going to lose any sleep over it.

You just keep being that guy that knows it all, seen it all, acts big and tough knowing damn well it’s an act and I’ll be the guy that doesn’t give a shit if I was wrong or right about some guy on the internet.

 

[AXE]

You’re right I’m sure he didn’t. We weren’t arguing over whether or not the 5 psi meant anything noticeable, we were arguing over whether or not pressure increases when a bag is compressed. I wouldn’t expect you to acknowledge that because you are the guy trying to prove to the world you’re right. You have to be the king of the ZR2 forum and make sure to be the loudest one in the room. The thing about guys like you is nobody really gives a shit how right or wrong you are, only you give a shit. Maybe it’s because you were bullied or never really proved yourself to yourself.

Yeah I am the guy that got a set of timbrens and tried them out for myself instead of listening to some random guy on the internet. Whether you were wrong or right doesn’t matter to me. I experienced it for myself and now I know for sure what the use case is or is not for my situation. I’m not going to lose any sleep over it.

You just keep being that guy that knows it all, seen it all, acts big and tough knowing damn well it’s an act and I’ll be the guy that doesn’t give a shit if I was wrong or right about some guy on the internet.

You don't know whether the pressure increases, cause you've never run it on this rig (neither has 8 ball). I clearly stated the bags won't compress to a point where they would even be noticeable at 5 psi with the heavy springs and suspension. It was never about ol Boyle.

So now we're coming back full circle and acknowledging air bags work better than most options for towing, the setup I outlined in detail in this thread works very well and seems to be reliable, and air pressure adjustability is a really good option to have when towing light to heavy loads in variable condition.

Whew! When you and 8 ball pulled out ol Boyles Law, I was sweating bullets thinking maybe I had missed some serious data. Then I remembered, nah that never happens!

 

[NullNomad]

You don't know whether the pressure increases, cause you've never run it on this rig (neither has 8 ball). I clearly stated the bags won't compress to a point where they would even be noticeable at 5 psi with the heavy springs and suspension. It was never about ol Boyle.

So now we're coming back full circle and acknowledging air bags work better than most options for towing, the setup I outlined in detail in this thread works very well and seems to be reliable, and air pressure adjustability is a really good option to have when towing light to heavy loads in variable condition.

Whew! When you and 8 ball pulled out ol Boyles Law, I was sweating bullets thinking maybe I had missed some serious data. Then I remembered, nah that never happens!